Civil Engineers to Practice Architecture

http://www.architectureboard.ph/news.php?id=139#main

any thoughts?

dami na nga nag post eh..
http://www.cgpinoy.org/t19824-architects-to-rally-in-the-crafting-of-the-ce-law-via-sb-2770
at ito naman sakin chief
http://www.cgpinoy.org/t19825-civil-engineers-nice-try


well for my comment... definitely not right... we have our own fields.. sana mag stick nalang sila with there own..
i suggest magenroll nalang ng architecture ung gusto mag practice ng architecture
they can make a building stand but it doesnt mean na they can design

Pasintabi sa mga engineer friends ko; plain & simple lang naman ito eh..

GREED.

Ang masasabi ko lang dito, ang Engineer ( GAWANG PAA) , Ang Arkitekto ( GAWANG KAMAY )..Isang kahibangan..Fu@#...!...

maybe Jealousy too?



you might like this facebook page regarding this issue. https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/No-to-Senate-Bill-2770/173877429352791

Reporter(R): Engr, may architectural design subject ba kayo nun college?
Civil Engr(CE):ah, wala e.
R: Arch, may structural design subject ba kayo nun college?
Architect(Ar): meron
R: Engr, may architectural topics ba kayo sa board exams?
CE: ah un? wala rin eh.
R: Arch, may structural topics ba kayo sa board exams?
Ar: meron
R: Q&A: saan dapat naka-orient ang football field, N S E W?
CE: sa east yan, ayon sa calculator ko!
Ar: sa north dapat, ayon sa napag-aralan ko
R: senators, isip-isip!!!

Nabalitaan ko nga. Hindi maganda. Bakit ang kulit nila. I have nothing against CE's but bakit pinipilit nila agawin trabaho natin kahit wala sa curriculum nila? Im sorry to say pero wala ako ibang maisip na dahilan kung hindi "greed".

They are not qualified by means of standard, curiculum, practice or by application to the work of an architect. Unless magaral nga sila ng architecture. Or isasama nila ang buong 100% curriculum natin sa curriculum nila. Both are in a different field and profession.

GREED nga! Pasintabi po! Ang pagkakaalam ko lang, ang CIVIL ENGINEER ( GAWANG PAA ) .. Ang ARKITEKTO ( GAWANG KAMAY )..Simple!

basta ang kay juan, kay juan, ang kay pedro, kay pedro

sa bandang huli kung mangyari man ito, makikita rin ng tao kung ang bahay mo ay gawa ng isang arkitekto o enginyero, pag me sining ito...arkitekto, pag wala malamang enginyero...

isa pa, ang dalawang ito dapat ay nagtutulungan para gumawa ng mga obra, hindi para kunin ang kani-kaniyang mga kakayahan para sa pansariling kadahilanan...

sa mga brod naming enginyero, respetohan lang...peace

ang simple simple naman kasi......
ARCHITECTURAL: only for architects
STRUCTURAL : only for civil engineers/pasalamat nga sila tayo na gumagawa ng structural conceptualization..
ELECTRICAL : only for professional electrical engineers / baka agawin pa ng civil engineer to
SANITARY /PLUMBING : sa sanitary engr. at master plumber/ baka agawin nila din ito.
MECHANICAL : para sa mga mechanical engineer/ mag ingat nadin kayo baka ito agawin nila ang trabaho nyo..

maraming magagaling na civil engr. pero hindi sa profession natin.. at nakuha nalang nila thru experience like pagbabasa ng plano na gawa ng mga architects..
pag bagong pasa nga na civil engr. hirap nga magbasa ng plano yan....

mas maganda nga mag design competition nalang sa senado..AIRPORT o hospital ang gagawin...close door..site lang ibibigay ng senado at mga 20 x 30 na papel.. tingnan ko lng, hindi kaya ng civil engr kung panu nya umpisahan....

theomatheus wrote:ang simple simple naman kasi......
ARCHITECTURAL: only for architects
STRUCTURAL : only for civil engineers/pasalamat nga sila tayo na gumagawa ng structural conceptualization..
ELECTRICAL : only for professional electrical engineers / baka agawin pa ng civil engineer to
SANITARY /PLUMBING : sa sanitary engr. at master plumber/ baka agawin nila din ito.
MECHANICAL : para sa mga mechanical engineer/ mag ingat nadin kayo baka ito agawin nila ang trabaho nyo..

ganito nangyayari .plumbing,electrical pinipirmahan ng c.e.
paano nalang pag aaksiyon ang mga electrical engineers,and sanitary/master plumbers together with architects.

qcksilver wrote:Reporter(R): Engr, may architectural design subject ba kayo nun college?
Civil Engr(CE):ah, wala e.
R: Arch, may structural design subject ba kayo nun college?
Architect(Ar): meron
R: Engr, may architectural topics ba kayo sa board exams?
CE: ah un? wala rin eh.
R: Arch, may structural topics ba kayo sa board exams?
Ar: meron
R: Q&A: saan dapat naka-orient ang football field, N S E W?
CE: sa east yan, ayon sa calculator ko!
Ar: sa north dapat, ayon sa napag-aralan ko
R: senators, isip-isip!!!

sir pashare po ah, post ko sa FB, TIA simple lang pero may meaning talaga

(hindi yan nakikita sa galing mag render o mag cadd ah) maybe kaya ngang gumawa ng plan o mag design ang mga civil engineer......pero hindi pa din nila kayang tapatan ang galing sa pagconceptualize at pag design
ang isang arkitekto. lahat inaanalyze mula labas ng bahay
hanggang loob at pati mga nasa paligid...nung nag aral tayo pati pag gawa ng electrical, plumbing, etc.. may alam tyo kahit papano.. ang mga c.e hindi nga nila pinag aralan yan eh...

I can see why this is happening. A civil engineer, before he/she could sign structural plans of structure beyond 3 stories high, must first be a qualified structural engineer, and I guess before someone can be a surveyor, he must be a geodetic engineer, so on and so forth, iba pa yata ang road construction, and bridge design. Meaning, they still have to take further studies, so that they can go BEYOND what general engineers can do.

Kaso, mahal mag aaral sa pinas, as these are post graduate courses, tapos mag eexam pa ulit sila. Ang nangyayari, they end up doing things that they are not supposed to do. Mas mahirap kumita pag road projects lang gagawin nila, mabagal magbayad ang gobyerno.

I guess the best way around it is to change the curriculum of Civil Engineering. Pagdating ng 4th yr, papiliin na sila ng field of specialization, parang doctor, at kung ano man mapili nila, yun na agad exam nila. Para kung ano man ang specialize nila, yun na ang role nila upon getting the appropriate license.

Kasi, ang mga arkitekto, hindi pwedeng magdesign ng tulay, cellphone tower, at roads, ibang discipline kasi ito, these are for the engineers, since, ito talaga ang covered sa course nila, kaya nga CIVIL eh..while architects where trained in designing spaces, that are not only habitable but aesthetically good looking as well.

But to be fair, some engineers can make nice looking structures, due to the fact that design books and magazine abound. Anyone, even a laymen with artistic inclinations, can come up with something. The only problem is they do not have the training for such undertaking.

Just my 2 centimos.....

GREEDY!

ako lang yata ang civil engineer dito...nasaktan din ako sa mga sinasabi nyo...

sorry zdesign. di naman ito directed specifically sa mga practicing engineers, kundi ung mga nasa posisyon na naglolobby for the bill.

intindihin natin ang saloobin ng mga arkitekto, kasi 5 taon na pinagdusahan yan at pinagaralan. ganun din naman ang mga engineer pero kahit meron tayong interweaving na skills, hindi justified na ang isang profession eh masapawan (ng role) ng iba. to each his own ika nga. may kanya kanyang parts to play sa design and construction ang bawat profession. naka define ung sa architect, nakadefine din sa engineer. bagamat me skill na magdesign ang ilang civil/structural engineers, hindi un sapat para masabi na ipasintabi na ang practice ng architect.

sa bill na to kasi, parang binabalewala ang profession ng architecture as a whole. kung magiging batas ito, sino pa ang magnanais na maging arkitekto kung wala rin naman silang solid na role sa design and construction na industriya?

at dagdag pa nito, mistulang binabalewala tlga ang value ng design and planning. sa bansa kasi natin di lahat sinusunod ang 10% na design fee, tatanggalan pa ang arkitekto ng karapatang gawin ang nakatalaga na trabaho nila - ang pagdidisenyo at pagpplano?

I hope Engineers could understand this Article. Maybe CIVIL ENGINEERS thought that designing is just a
matter of making a simple technical drawing of a bungalow house. Let’s put it
this way, how can they make a complete set of drawing or specification of a
very large complex building if they got ONLY up to Drawing 2 when they are
still in college and take note some of them are paying architecture student to make
their plates. Comparing to the Architects they are having at least 9 DESIGN
PROBLEM every semester and additional 2 years of extensive apprentice before
taking the Board Exam. It’s very simple problem that it can be solve in a
matter of a minute we don’t need to go through senates or whatever government
agencies. The only key to this problem is RESPECT and throw the mentality of
corruption, we must be a kind of PROFESSIONAL that is guided by our Code of
Ethics. To all Engineers out there don’t think about what you can compensate,
think of the future of our children and country. Being an Architect or Engineer
is not a profession granted to us for money; it is to help develop our country.
Maging magaspang ako ng kunti marami tayong magagaling na civil engineer pero
tignan muna natin ang mga kalsada natin ala pa isang taon sira na kung ang
specialization nyo nga di nyo na magawa ng ayos papasokin nyo pa ang mundo ng
arkitekto. Walisin nyo muna sarili nyong bakuran bago nyo walisin ang bakuran
ng iba.

the senate bill 2770 by sen. lacson is been deffered yesterday(aug.9,2011)
so our worries will temporarily relieved...

the senate bill 2109 by sen escudero is the revised bill of 2770...
and the one that will be reviewed at the senate....
please try to search it in google and try to find some time to read it...


just got the news from there fan page.... i hope its true...

celes wrote:sorry zdesign. di naman ito directed specifically sa mga practicing engineers, kundi ung mga nasa posisyon na naglolobby for the bill.

intindihin natin ang saloobin ng mga arkitekto, kasi 5 taon na pinagdusahan yan at pinagaralan. ganun din naman ang mga engineer pero kahit meron tayong interweaving na skills, hindi justified na ang isang profession eh masapawan (ng role) ng iba. to each his own ika nga. may kanya kanyang parts to play sa design and construction ang bawat profession. naka define ung sa architect, nakadefine din sa engineer. bagamat me skill na magdesign ang ilang civil/structural engineers, hindi un sapat para masabi na ipasintabi na ang practice ng architect.

sa bill na to kasi, parang binabalewala ang profession ng architecture as a whole. kung magiging batas ito, sino pa ang magnanais na maging arkitekto kung wala rin naman silang solid na role sa design and construction na industriya?

at dagdag pa nito, mistulang binabalewala tlga ang value ng design and planning. sa bansa kasi natin di lahat sinusunod ang 10% na design fee, tatanggalan pa ang arkitekto ng karapatang gawin ang nakatalaga na trabaho nila - ang pagdidisenyo at pagpplano?

okey lang yon celes gets ko ang side nyo...ipaglaban nyo parin kasi ang makikinabang lang din dyan e yong nakaposisyon.

Salamat sa iyo kapatid na zdesign sa iyong malawak na pangunawa!..You're the man!

zdesign wrote:

celes wrote:sorry zdesign. di naman ito directed specifically sa mga practicing engineers, kundi ung mga nasa posisyon na naglolobby for the bill.

intindihin natin ang saloobin ng mga arkitekto, kasi 5 taon na pinagdusahan yan at pinagaralan. ganun din naman ang mga engineer pero kahit meron tayong interweaving na skills, hindi justified na ang isang profession eh masapawan (ng role) ng iba. to each his own ika nga. may kanya kanyang parts to play sa design and construction ang bawat profession. naka define ung sa architect, nakadefine din sa engineer. bagamat me skill na magdesign ang ilang civil/structural engineers, hindi un sapat para masabi na ipasintabi na ang practice ng architect.

sa bill na to kasi, parang binabalewala ang profession ng architecture as a whole. kung magiging batas ito, sino pa ang magnanais na maging arkitekto kung wala rin naman silang solid na role sa design and construction na industriya?

at dagdag pa nito, mistulang binabalewala tlga ang value ng design and planning. sa bansa kasi natin di lahat sinusunod ang 10% na design fee, tatanggalan pa ang arkitekto ng karapatang gawin ang nakatalaga na trabaho nila - ang pagdidisenyo at pagpplano?

okey lang yon celes gets ko ang side nyo...ipaglaban nyo parin kasi ang makikinabang lang din dyan e yong nakaposisyon.

Freshman wrote:I hope Engineers could understand this Article. Maybe CIVIL ENGINEERS thought that designing is just a
matter of making a simple technical drawing of a bungalow house. Let’s put it
this way, how can they make a complete set of drawing or specification of a
very large complex building if they got ONLY up to Drawing 2 when they are
still in college and take note some of them are paying architecture student to make
their plates. Comparing to the Architects they are having at least 9 DESIGN
PROBLEM every semester and additional 2 years of extensive apprentice before
taking the Board Exam. It’s very simple problem that it can be solve in a
matter of a minute we don’t need to go through senates or whatever government
agencies. The only key to this problem is RESPECT and throw the mentality of
corruption, we must be a kind of PROFESSIONAL that is guided by our Code of
Ethics. To all Engineers out there don’t think about what you can compensate,
think of the future of our children and country. Being an Architect or Engineer
is not a profession granted to us for money; it is to help develop our country.
Maging magaspang ako ng kunti marami tayong magagaling na civil engineer pero
tignan muna natin ang mga kalsada natin ala pa isang taon sira na kung ang
specialization nyo nga di nyo na magawa ng ayos papasokin nyo pa ang mundo ng
arkitekto. Walisin nyo muna sarili nyong bakuran bago nyo walisin ang bakuran
ng iba.

how nice.. I fully agree with this statement..

theomatheus wrote:ang simple simple naman kasi......
ARCHITECTURAL:only for architects
STRUCTURAL: only for civil engineers/pasalamat nga sila tayo na gumagawa ng structural conceptualization..[/color]
ELECTRICAL : only for professional electrical engineers / baka agawin pa ng civil engineer to
SANITARY /PLUMBING : sa sanitary engr. at master plumber/ baka agawin nila din ito.
MECHANICAL : para sa mga mechanical engineer/ mag ingat nadin kayo baka ito agawin nila ang trabaho nyo..

maraming magagaling na civil engr. pero hindi sa profession natin.. at nakuha nalang nila thru experience like pagbabasa ng plano na gawa ng mga architects..
pag bagong pasa nga na civil engr. hirap nga magbasa ng plano yan....

mas maganda nga mag design competition nalang sa senado..AIRPORT o hospital ang gagawin...close door..site lang ibibigay ng senado at mga 20 x 30 na papel.. tingnan ko lng, hindi kaya ng civil engr kung panu nya umpisahan....

I just drop by to read all your comments here.. I highlighted one of your comment in red.. I have do some high level of respect to our architects.. Hindi po ako against sa sinusulong ng architect ngayon, kung na desisyonan na iyan, fully ibigay sa inyo dahil nararapat naman sa inyo iyan... marami akong kaibigan na architect but what im against is your post (in red).. very exaggerated naman.. show some respect naman dude.. haven't you read your code of ethics?

zdesign CE ka rin pala.. architects & civil engineers can work together para mapalambo ang construction industry natin.. meron tayong contractor na civil meron din contractor na architect.. kung may project ang architect yung structural papermahan at ipa check nila sa civil, kung may project ang civil papermahan nila ang architectural at ipa check or ipagawa sa architect.. ganun lang naman yun napaka simple.. para wala ng bangayan pa..

mokong wrote:

theomatheus wrote:ang simple simple naman kasi......
ARCHITECTURAL:only for architects
STRUCTURAL: only for civil engineers/pasalamat nga sila tayo na gumagawa ng structural conceptualization..[/color]
ELECTRICAL : only for professional electrical engineers / baka agawin pa ng civil engineer to
SANITARY /PLUMBING : sa sanitary engr. at master plumber/ baka agawin nila din ito.
MECHANICAL : para sa mga mechanical engineer/ mag ingat nadin kayo baka ito agawin nila ang trabaho nyo..

maraming magagaling na civil engr. pero hindi sa profession natin.. at nakuha nalang nila thru experience like pagbabasa ng plano na gawa ng mga architects..
pag bagong pasa nga na civil engr. hirap nga magbasa ng plano yan....

mas maganda nga mag design competition nalang sa senado..AIRPORT o hospital ang gagawin...close door..site lang ibibigay ng senado at mga 20 x 30 na papel.. tingnan ko lng, hindi kaya ng civil engr kung panu nya umpisahan....

I just drop by to read all your comments here.. I highlighted one of your comment in red.. I have do some high level of respect to our architects.. Hindi po ako against sa sinusulong ng architect ngayon, kung na desisyonan na iyan, fully ibigay sa inyo dahil nararapat naman sa inyo iyan... marami akong kaibigan na architect but what im against is your post (in red).. very exaggerated naman.. show some respect naman dude.. haven't you read your code of ethics?

zdesign CE ka rin pala.. architects & civil engineers can work together para mapalambo ang construction industry natin.. meron tayong contractor na civil meron din contractor na architect.. kung may project ang architect yung structural papermahan at ipa check nila sa civil, kung may project ang civil papermahan nila ang architectural at ipa check or ipagawa sa architect.. ganun lang naman yun napaka simple.. para wala ng bangayan pa..

i respect naman dude..bakit hanggang ngayon pilit paring ipinaglalaban ng PICE na pwede silang mag practice ng architecture.. at pumirma ng architectural plans??? yan ba ang code of ethics na tinatawag nyo.. maari mong sabihin na exaggerated pero ang pinaglalaban ng PICE like ito..
nabasa ko ito sa isang forum.

para sa architects. which is tama
Architectural Plans/Drawings



Vicinity Map/Location Plan

• 
  
  
  
  • Site Development Plan
    
  • Perspective
    
  • Floor Plans
    
  • Elevations
    
  • Sections
    
  • Reflected Ceiling Plan
    
  • Details, in the form of plans, elevations/sections
    
  • Schedule of Doors and Windows
    
  • Schedule of Finishes
    
  • Details of other major architectural elements
    


• Plans and Specific Locations of Accessibility Facilities
  
• Fire Safety Documents
  
• etc.
  

para sa mga civil engineering...( hindi naman daw nila ginagamit yung architectural word)

Building Plans

• Perspective
  
• Floor Plans
  
• Elevations
  
• Sections
  
• Reflected Ceiling Plan
  
• Details, in the form of plans, elevations/sections
  
• Schedule of Doors and Windows
  
• Schedule of Finishes
  
• Structural Plans
  
• Site Development Plan Structural Analysis and Design Boring and Load Tests Seismic Analysis Other related documents
  

..kung iintindihin mo dito sir yan ba ang ibig sabihin ng BUILDING PLANS???? masyadong general yan.. ang building plans na tinatawag: ay complete set of plan ng structure likes architectural, structural, sanitary, electrical, mechanical, interior...etc(kaya ko nasabi yun)
and kung ang kine claim ng PICE ay yung Building plans at nakaindicate sa taas yung ibig sabihin nila sa buildiin plans.. bakit wala akong makitang perspective, floor plan, elevation,sections atbp. sa curriculum ng CHED for civil engineering course..

ito ipapakita ko sau yung curriculum nyo..

ito ang scope ng engineering subjects... just to refresh your memory kasi baka akala mo architecture ang kinuha mo.

engineering drawings (1 sem lang yan)
mathematics (marami kayong math alam ko yun)
chemistry
physics
surveying (magaling kayo diyan)
building systems
structural (ie mechanics, theory of strucures, etc.) (napakarami nito alam ko at alam ko rin na napakagaling niyo dito)
hydraulics
basic electrical engineering for CE
basic mechanical engineering for CE
sewerage and drainage engineering
water supply engineering
traffic & highway engineering
transportation engineering
construction methods, materials
civil engineering laws
geotechnical engineering
construction project management

ito naman ang sa architecture

graphics (3 sems) ie. perpective, isometric, etc... (major)
architectural visuals (4 sems) (pagrerender and pagpresent ng plans) (major)
mathematics (3 units lang kami)
history of architecture (4sems)
theory of architecture (3 sems)
physics
ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN (10 sems) (MAJOR) (andito yung ginagawa nyong architectural plans na ginagawa niyo na hindi kasama sa curriculum niyo)
architectural interiors
tropical architecture
(wind direction, sun path, landscaping, etc... pinag-aaralan namin para
maging maaliwalas ang pakiramdam ng occupant ng building)
BUILDING TECHNOLOGY 1,2,3
ie. building materials, construction drawings (details) of wood,
masonry, steel, concrete, etc..., lahat ng klase ng construction (MAJOR) (kasama ang structural plan niyo)
psychology (meron din kami nito)
BUILDING UTILITIES ie. sanitary, plumbing (MAJOR) (paggawa po ng plumbing ang sanitary plans ito plus materials and details hindi basta basic lang)
surveying (meron din kami niyan)pero mas magaling kayo dito
STRUCTURAL DESIGN ie. mechanics, theory of structures, etc. (madami din to pero 3 units lang) idol namin kayo dito nagkakaregla ang ilong dito.
SPACE PLANNING
BUILDING UTILITIES 2 (mechanical) (MAJOR) (paggawa ng mechanical plan, materials, pati parts ng elevator at escalator kasama dito, hindi basic)
urban sociology
BUILDING UTILITIES 3 (acoustics and lighting system) (MAJOR) (electrical plan po gumagawa rin kami pati acoustics, hindi rin basic)
PROFESSIONAL PRACTICE (MAJOR)
BUIDING TECHNOLOGY 4 (ALTERNATIVE BUILDING CONSTRUCTION SYSTEMS) (MAJOR) (kasama na naman ang structural plan niyo)
research methods for architecture
BUIDING TECHNOLOGY 5 (specifications writing and estimate) (MAJOR) (parang wala yata kayo nito? di ko sure ha baka magalit ka naman eh.. hehehe..)
theory of structures
STRUCTURAL DESIGN OF STEEL & TIMBER
PLANNING (site planning, urban planning, landscape design, etc..)
STRUCTURAL DESIGN OF REINFORCED CONCRETE
BUILDING SYSTEMS
STRUCTURAL SYSTEMS..

im sorry dude ah.hindi tayo magkaaway.tama sinabi mo na dapat magkasundo ang architect at civil. pero idol kita sa mga rendering mo hindi na maaalis yun. peace tayo. .alam ko naiitindihan mo yung kalagayan namin. yung mga board of civil engr lang ang hindi .c Zdesign idol ko rin yun....im sorry bro kung nasaktan ko kayo..