interesting conversation

First topic message reminder :

enjoy it
A VERY INTERESTING CONVERSATION

An Atheist Professor of Philosophy was speaking to his Class on the Problem Science has
with GOD, the ALMIGHTY. He asked one of his New Christian Students to stand and . . ..

Professor : You are Christian, aren't you, son ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, you Believe in GOD ?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Professor : Is GOD Good ?
Student : Sure.
Professor : Is GOD ALL - POWERFUL ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : My Brother died of Cancer even though he Prayed to GOD to Heal him.
Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill.
But GOD didn't. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?

(Student was silent )

Professor : You can't answer, can you ? Let's start again, Young Fella.
Is GOD Good?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Is Satan good ?
Student : No.
Professor : Where does Satan come from ?
Student : From . .. . GOD . . .
Professor : That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this World?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Evil is everywhere, isn't it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?
Student : Yes.
Professor : So who created evil ?

(Student did not answer)

Professor : Is there Sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness?
All these terrible things exist in the World, don't they?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, who Created them ?

(Student had no answer)

Professor : Science says you have 5 Senses you use to Identify and Observe the World around you.
Tell me, son .. . . Have you ever Seen GOD?
Student : No, sir.
Professor : Tell us if you have ever Heard your GOD?
Student : No , sir.
Professor : Have you ever Felt your GOD, Tasted your GOD, Smelt your GOD?
Have you ever had any Sensory Perception of GOD for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Professor : Yet you still Believe in HIM?
Student : Yes.
Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol,
Science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student : Nothing. I only have my Faith.
Professor : Yes, Faith. And that is the Problem Science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as Heat?
Professor : Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as Cold?
Professor : Yes.
Student : No, sir. There isn't.

(The Lecture Theatre became very quiet with this turn of events )

Student : Sir, you can have Lots of Heat, even More Heat, Superheat, Mega Heat, White Heat,
a Little Heat or No Heat.
But we don't have anything called Cold.
We can hit 458 Degrees below Zero which is No Heat, but we can't go any further after that.
There is no such thing as Cold.
Cold is only a Word we use to describe the Absence of Heat.
We cannot Measure Cold.
Heat is Energy.
Cold is Not the Opposite of Heat, sir, just the Absence of it.

(There was Pin-Drop Silence in the Lecture Theatre )

Student : What about Darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as Darkness?
Professor : Yes. What is Night if there isn't Darkness?
Student : You're wrong again, sir.
Darkness is the Absence of Something
You can have Low Light, Normal Light, Bright Light, Flashing Light . . .
But if you have No Light constantly, you have nothing and it's called Darkness, isn't it?
In reality, Darkness isn't.
If it is, were you would be able to make Darkness Darker, wouldn't you?
Professor : So what is the point you are making, Young Man ?
Student : Sir, my point is your Philosophical Premise is flawed.
Professor : Flawed ? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the Premise of Duality.
You argue there is Life and then there is Death, a Good GOD and a Bad GOD.
You are viewing the Concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure.
Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought.
It uses Electricity and Magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.
To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that
Death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing.
Death is Not the Opposite of Life: just the Absence of it.
Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your Students that they evolved from a Monkey?
Professor : If you are referring to the Natural Evolutionary Process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shook his head with a Smile, beginning to realize where the Argument was going )

Student : Since no one has ever observed the Process of Evolution at work and
Cannot even prove that this Process is an On-Going Endeavour,
Are you not teaching your Opinion, sir?
Are you not a Scientist but a Preacher?

(The Class was in Uproar )

Student : Is there anyone in the Class who has ever seen the Professor's Brain?

(The Class broke out into Laughter )

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's Brain, Felt it, touched or Smelt it? . . .
No one appears to have done so.
So, according to the Established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol,
Science says that You have No Brain, sir.
With all due respect, sir, how do we then Trust your Lectures, sir?

(The Room was Silent. The Professor stared at the Student, his face unfathomable)

Professor : I guess you'll have to take them on Faith, son.
Student : That is it sir . . . Exactly !
The Link between Man & GOD is FAITH.
That is all that Keeps Things Alive and Moving.


NB:

I believe you have enjoyed the Conversation . . . and if so . . .
You'll probably want your Friends / Colleagues to enjoy the same . . . won't you?
Forward them to Increase their Knowledge . . . or FAITH.
That student was Albert Einstein!

it depends on what we believe, personally.. in my opinion, religion is just something we inherit to believe in, driven by the culture, soceity and demographic we part-in.. what important is, we are not force to do good deeds to others and without expecting in return..

contemporary religion is just a placebo effect, we take it every week to feel good, once good, twice bad, feel good, feel bad..as sin as good as just a common flu..

as there is no high sky and deep pits, angels and devils is just an illusion they create, we create, a distortion and interpretation on what we really are in this real world.. what important is on what side will we choose to become part of.

jesus christ (pardon the pun) but aren't we all getting metaphysical here... this would be reallllllyyyy nice to tackle over some brews and a lenghty free time wouldnt it?...

cloud20 wrote:jesus christ (pardon the pun) but aren't we all getting metaphysical here... this would be reallllllyyyy nice to tackle over some brews and a lenghty free time wouldnt it?...

sarap nga ng topic na eto... pag may

I agree with pricklypineapple 100%
But then I chose to affiliate myself with a religion... although i don't believe in many of it's dogmas...
Religion somehow has contributed vastly in promoting order in this chaotic world of ours... The simple religious teachings of branding and grouping of actions into good and evil has become our society's standard of determining, what way of life we'll gonna take in our existence in this world... The good and evil thing has trickled down to the many "antonyms" we've known in this world today (right/wrong, truth/lie, good/bad, etc) that guided humans eons and eons of it's existence...
My affiliation with my religion is limited to that... It's my choice to belong myself to one, simply because that's the only place that teaches the value of goodness and the rubbish of evil... and i need to be reminded always...

Science and religion should co-exist... they have very important roles to play in the existence of mankind...
It's up for us, on how to utilize these resources to enjoy the life we have... our existence...

refresher: the crusades were carried out in the name of religion...

i have for a long time held this notion that religion is just an emotional crutch... uh-oh here come the stones cast upon me...

Time to eat all your words
Swallow your pride
Open your eye --- TFF ; sowing the seeds of love

cloud20 wrote:refresher: the crusades were carried out in the name of religion...

i have for a long time held this notion that religion is just an emotional crutch... uh-oh here come the stones cast upon me...

Time to eat all your words
Swallow your pride
Open your eye --- TFF ; sowing the seeds of love

mukhang malayo mararating ng usapang eto

agree with you master cloud, even at our modern time, some people, terrorists, even pastors and priests are using religion to shroud thier evil motives... it's the humans... not the religion...

religion itself is a human invention as a means of control and order.

it would be better to just maintain a good relationship with your God - whoever that may be. the rest - symbols, books, rites, won't save your soul.

if there really is no heaven or hell, even if you believed that they exist - you're ok. but if there is, and you didn't, then you're doomed

so it's better to believe in something than to not believe in anything at all :p

thanks sir! ako din po post ko po ito sa friendster ko

mushroom wrote:religion itself is a human invention as a means of control and order.

it would be better to just maintain a good relationship with your God - whoever that may be. the rest - symbols, books, rites, won't save your soul.

if there really is no heaven or hell, even if you believed that they exist - you're ok. but if there is, and you didn't, then you're doomed

so it's better to believe in something than to not believe in anything at all :p

dammit man....you always have a 'back-up plan', kahit sa faith.
hmmm....maybe i shld think of somethin' before i reach 50.

napaka teknikal nman ng argumentation, hehe

hihihi galing nito mga bossing

...di nko nkapagtrabho dhil lang sa conversation n 'toh...

...sir Cloud, r u Chromedome of 3DP?...

Juanchito wrote:...di nko nkapagtrabho dhil lang sa conversation n 'toh...

...sir Cloud, r u Chromedome of 3DP?...

one & the same po...

Interesting topic nga bagay n bagay s holy week...well share k n rin Opinion ko regarding Faith basi s nbabasa ko s bible.
Di nmn to usapin bout religion eh kundi relasyon m s diyos by Faith. I could say "Christians are People of Truth not a People of
Fiction" .Mhirap mbuhay n wlang Faith for me as a christian, a week without christ is a weak. I do beleive na ang diyos ay kumikilos s buhay ko at dahil s Faith ko kya ako nabubuhay. Bakit b mga sirs s palagay nyo nabuhay si kristo s kalbaryo after 3 days? just to prove that there is life after Death d b? At dahil n rin s Faith sa kanya kaya tayo maliligtas sa Hell . John 3:16 God said...so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes(FAITH) in him should not perish but have everlasting life. So we must live by Faith....bago ko wakasan ang side ko mag iiwan n lng ako ng isang tanong mga sirs na maling kaisipan ko dati at wla p akong knowledge s bible nun at ito ung tanong ko sa sarili ko dati.
PAPAANO KUNG WALA PALANG DIYOS PAG NAMATAY KA? Ako personally nsagot k sya by reading bible eh at let the bible speaks. Kapag ikaw ay namatay n wla palang diyos okey lang walang nawala syo at, in fact gumanda pa nga life m eh kc nbuhay ka n may diyos s puso mo. Pero kapag ikaw ay namatay na may Diyos pala mlaki ang nawala syo kc masusunog k s impyerno ng mahabang panahon na according to bible mas mahaba ang gugulin ntn s kabilang buhay...kaya its better to invest life with God than sorry....This world its just a passing through only but to die with God is everlasting life...mhirap din kc pag mtanda k n lng magbago eh kc di m alam bka dumating n ang Rapture ngayon or bukas only Gods knows .....

God bless everybody...

Provebs 3:5-6
word i leave for...

para sa mga catholics (including me)

if you think the institution of the roman catholic church is infallible, think again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Alexander_VI

read it and get sick to the core.

this is why i dont believe in all men that run these institutions per se. just take what you think is right and accept it. men are prone to error, while the teachings are not.

for me religion is a very messy affair and people will all have their starting points and therefore reach different conclusions. you have my respect as long as i have yours.

i personally believe that religion is not equivalent to spirituality - although people have a mess of confounding the two. while religion may lead us to a closer relationship with the Lord, it can sometimes have the opposite effect. we can and sometimes do treat religion as if it were the sole determinant of our faith and relationship with the Lord.

do we believe every word of Christ is TRUE? the answer has to be cashed out into what do we mean when we say "true" : do we mean literal, theological, historical, analogical? if we subscribe to the very strong literal thesis: that everything in the Bible is true (literal, historical, theological, analogical, etc.) we will be forced to a paradox: how come there are specific events mentioned in the Bible that are historically false? (you can google for a list of these; some lists are more accurate than others). this strong literal thesis is also why people believed the world will end before the last of the apostles would die (Jesus did promise that He shall return before the last of them dies).

then we are invited to see that to accommodate the historical "falseness" of the Bible, we have to hold to a stronger theological thesis: EVEN IF historical detail is inaccurately reported in the Bible, the message of God's love is still TRUE. that is why i can confidently say i believe in EVERY WORD Christ has said. but believing every word Christ has said NEED NOT require of me to hold a strong literal thesis. Christ gave His words, quoted scriptures for a purpose -- to affirm God's salvation for all. when He begins speaking of the OT, He is talking of the continuity of the promise of God's plan for salvation for all men. remember that He tried to convince the jews that the plan wasn't only for them but for all mankind (this is meant as a foil to all those OT statements that God wished other people dead 'kill other nations in my Name!' - again the atheist reads this and says, "and you say your God is kind?").

as a Christian, i don't find it wrong that science is trying to explain the world in their own terms (carbon dating is very useful, btw) because none of it will eventually counter my theological stances. i am happy with a theory of evolution (and on a related happiness -- the big bang theory) since i will attribute the same process(es) to God as i do a seven-day story of creation. whether or not the flood happened is not really the point since i know God saves all men by whatever means He deems necessary (the measurements of the noah's ark, btw, were the measurements of an older version of the temple of jerusalem).

on a final note, the invitation in scripture is to read and experience how our God is inviting us to be part of our life by being a part of His; of how He is inviting us to walk with Him, struggle with Him and spread His love to all we meet. how is the Lord speaking to us through the stories He has woven with His people? how were experiences (or "reported" experiences) of the characters there mirror our own struggles and our own journey? we can debate endlessly about the details and apparent contradictions, study the hermeneutics of each and every word and still miss the point.

if anything, the bible story represents our own journey in life : from sin to grace, from the desert to paradise, from being alone to being with a compassionate God who constantly and tenderly calls us to His heart. how is the Lord touching you in this moment of your life?

Good point there tutik. take out all the trivial matters and you are left with just his Word, which is proof enough that there is a Divine power guiding us.



There is a radical side to Christianity that i am always attracted to. The Christ that i knew was the one who condemned the Pharisees and overthrew the street sellers in the temple. The Christ that i knew was the one who defied all rules, even the established religion of the Jews - and he was a victim of the backward and mediocre thought of his time - just like the great thinkers of history who were persecuted for their declaration of truths, not necessarily religion - Socrates, for declaring that man's fate is the result of his own actions and not by the oracles, Galileo, for his heliocentric theory, Gandhi, for his peaceful methods of liberating India, etc. etc. His views were and still are very radical.

Without a commitment to social justice any belief is empty. I'd think the teachings of Christ are meant not just to guarantee us a seat in heaven or to avoid hell, but to make sure we live in harmony with our fellow men and we treat each other well.



(Panahon na para panoorin ang Jesus of Nazareth I think that's the most compelling movie about Him. Google it baka di pa kayo pinapanganak niyan, it's from the same director - Franco Zeffireli - who made The Last Emperor (Pu Yi) - laging pinapalabas yan tuwing Semana Santa sa channel 9 for 8 straight hours.. together with Gary V's Christian concerts and Romnick Sarmenta's Marcelino Pan Y Vino)

By the way Happy Easter sa lahat

it is NOT wrong to have some kind of religion... now BLIND FAITH; that is another matter...
@tutik - good dissemination there, i could ALMOST agree... arch. joseph tan says hi...

cloud20 wrote:@tutik - good dissemination there, i could ALMOST agree... arch. joseph tan says hi...

tks dude, you don't have to agree. yup joseph mentioned about you when i was there i still owe him something, which reminds me.

sir glen...

is this a chain mail or something??

saan mo po to nkuha? thx

jovanie_ wrote:sir glen...

is this a chain mail or something??

saan mo po to nkuha? thx

hehe...dunno, i might have spoken in 'tongues' while writing it

tutik wrote:

jovanie_ wrote:sir glen...

is this a chain mail or something??

saan mo po to nkuha? thx

hehe...dunno, i might have spoken in 'tongues' while writing it

Hehehe ano un speaking of toungues? nice sir hehehe alam ko kumalat lang to s email eh....kaya nagulat lang ako nung nabasa ko to dito thanks for sharing bro sana meron ka pa dyan baon...God bless

Austria medyo subjective na i-discuss pero advise ko nalang is to take part on a Christian Life Program (CLP) or Days With The Lord (Kursilyo) if you are a baptized Catholic. sangkatutak na pabaon ang ibibigay Nya sa iyo.

tutik wrote:Austria medyo subjective na i-discuss pero advise ko nalang is to take part on a Christian Life Program (CLP) or Days With The Lord (Kursilyo) if you are a baptized Catholic. sangkatutak na pabaon ang ibibigay Nya sa iyo.

We are on the 7th talk this coming Friday in CLP. I'm glad you are a part of it Glen.

tutik wrote:Austria medyo subjective na i-discuss pero advise ko nalang is to take part on a Christian Life Program (CLP) or Days With The Lord (Kursilyo) if you are a baptized Catholic. sangkatutak na pabaon ang ibibigay Nya sa iyo.

Born again Christian po ako sir...kaya nga gustong gusto ko ang topic na to...Nakaka bless at Nakaka inspire when you hear and read bout Gods words.... God bless Cgpinoy....

AUSTRIA wrote:

tutik wrote:Austria medyo subjective na i-discuss pero advise ko nalang is to take part on a Christian Life Program (CLP) or Days With The Lord (Kursilyo) if you are a baptized Catholic. sangkatutak na pabaon ang ibibigay Nya sa iyo.

Born again Christian po ako sir...kaya nga gustong gusto ko ang topic na to...Nakaka bless at Nakaka inspire when you hear and read bout Gods words.... God bless Cgpinoy....

cool Austria! i respect the fact that despite our differences in beliefs, we can commune harmoniously in this forum. God bless us all!