effect of units in max

hello po mga master, ask ko lng po sna kung ano mas mgandang units n gamitin s max, meter po b o millimeter? so that most of the default units for lighting, tiling, evermotion models are already match with the scene?

-if my cad file is in MM, and i import it to max in MM as well, if i will insert an IES file(which i downloaded from sir bokkins) do i have to multiply the intensity to 100x? or the IES file will automatically adjust its units to match with what i have set in max so i dont need change any setting, it's plug and play n kumbaga? pti s material tiling po, kelangan po b nka "use real world scale"? or it does not matter?..

-maraming salamat po mga masters..

meter is the default of most of the elements you can find around bro. IES and evermotion.

It's either you scale down your cad file of scale up your ies or models 1000X.

good luck!

bokkins wrote:meter is the default of most of the elements you can find around bro. IES and evermotion.

It's either you scale down your cad file of scale up your ies or models 1000X.

good luck!

maraming salamat sir s reply..

good question bro. there is no perfect way of learning and knowing the effects other than practicing and see for yourself in max. there is no such thing as "PLUG N' PLAY" in 3dsmax with regards to lighting. you have to tune it as always. plug n' play comes handy kung nakaproxy na ung model mo. or xref or merge. pero kelangan mo munang ayusin ung main file/scene para smooth na pag merge mo sa ibang scene.

kung nagkakaroon ka ng problema or duda ka sa scale ng isang object na ginamit mo sa scene you can check it by creating a box with the exact dimensions then dun mo e-base ung model mo then delete the box na lang after. malamang merong mas by the book the method kung paano like ibang software na makikita mo ung WxDxH ng object. hintay tayo ng iba pa.

for evermotion models, i find centimeters more accurate on most of the their releases.

A.K.A. wrote:good question bro. there is no perfect way of learning and knowing the effects other than practicing and see for yourself in max. there is no such thing as "PLUG N' PLAY" in 3dsmax with regards to lighting. you have to tune it as always. plug n' play comes handy kung nakaproxy na ung model mo. or xref or merge. pero kelangan mo munang ayusin ung main file/scene para smooth na pag merge mo sa ibang scene.

kung nagkakaroon ka ng problema or duda ka sa scale ng isang object na ginamit mo sa scene you can check it by creating a box with the exact dimensions then dun mo e-base ung model mo then delete the box na lang after. malamang merong mas by the book the method kung paano like ibang software na makikita mo ung WxDxH ng object. hintay tayo ng iba pa.

for evermotion models, i find centimeters more accurate on most of the their releases.

maraming salamat sir s reply..kelangan ko nga tlga ng mas maraming praktis p just to familiarize with max..

hehe tol nandito kana rin..post na!

remlex wrote:hehe tol nandito kana rin..post na!

hehe, praktis muna s max+vray bago post,para hnd masyado nkkhiya hehe..

post ko n rin ung follow up question ko po

hello po uli mga master, follow-up question ko n rin po regarding s effects ng units s max po, meron po b significant difference especially s rendering time and file size if my units in max is millimeters instead of meters and vice versa??..maraming salamat po uli mga master.

sa akin lng tol wala nman cgurong pagkakaiba sa units..kung rendering time depende kng marami kng lightings, reflections, high poly objects isa un sa ngpapabagal ng render...and file size naman medyo malaki ang file ng cad modelling kaysa max...hope nasagot ko kunti ung tanong mo tol.

remlex wrote:sa akin lng tol wala nman cgurong pagkakaiba sa units..kung rendering time depende kng marami kng lightings, reflections, high poly objects isa un sa ngpapabagal ng render...and file size naman medyo malaki ang file ng cad modelling kaysa max...hope nasagot ko kunti ung tanong mo tol.

slmat s agarang reply sir, so given there are 2 exactly the same scenes except that their only difference is that one scene is in millimeters and the other one is meters,sir are u saying in max e ----> Millimeters=Meters in terms of rendering time and size?

rockstarmsg wrote:Millimeters=Meters in terms of rendering time and size?

yup! no difference.

Meters and Millimeters would have no difference if the only determining factor is similar scale.

Of course rendering a 1meter long object would be the same as rendering a 1000 millimeter object.

The problems with scale becomes evident when you use real word lighting, raytracing a scene that has a very big scene scale.

If you use shadow maps, the problem with staircasing appears when the objects are too big. This is often resolved by limiting the size of the shadow or by making the light hotspots small. Again, an issue of scale.

As a rule, learn to model, texture and animate using real world scales, by doing so the margins of error caused by the software or the use are minimized.

v_wrangler wrote:Meters and Millimeters would have no difference if the only determining factor is similar scale.

Of course rendering a 1meter long object would be the same as rendering a 1000 millimeter object.

The problems with scale becomes evident when you use real word lighting, raytracing a scene that has a very big scene scale.

If you use shadow maps, the problem with staircasing appears when the objects are too big. This is often resolved by limiting the size of the shadow or by making the light hotspots small. Again, an issue of scale.

As a rule, learn to model, texture and animate using real world scales, by doing so the margins of error caused by the software or the use are minimized.

thank you for the reply sir, MM=M ----> got it, sir when u say "real world scales", do you mean the "real world scales" option located in the material editor? sir for example now i'm testing to render in MM units, i remember using "real world scale" option for some of the materials in my scene and still changed the tiling to fit the object..the lighting though, i remember changing the multiplier for the IES files to as high as 10000000%, for Vray light i changed the multiplier to 300 only..
(i will post my sample rendering later for the effects)

sir, what can be considered as "real world scales"? can u please advise me what units to use to have lesser adjustments for lighting, material lighting, and insertion/merging of 3d models esp. evermotion..its not that it is that difficult to adjust this and that, but i might be adjusting it to the wrong scale..

Real world scale meant that if you model an object - make sure that the size (be it in centimeters or millimeters) should be the same as their real world measurements.

So if the plan says 3 meter tall wall, your max unit settings (units) should also reflect the object as having the same height. 3 meters or 300 centimeters or 3000 millimeters. All those will reflect the same size as the real world counterpart. The only difference is the unit used.

In our case, me normally start a project using either centimeters or millimeters.

v_wrangler wrote:Real world scale meant that if you model an object - make sure that the size (be it in centimeters or millimeters) should be the same as their real world measurements.

So if the plan says 3 meter tall wall, your max unit settings (units) should also reflect the object as having the same height. 3 meters or 300 centimeters or 3000 millimeters. All those will reflect the same size as the real world counterpart. The only difference is the unit used.

In our case, me normally start a project using either centimeters or millimeters.

thank you sir for the reply, im still not clear on how can i minimize the adjusting of the scales for material tiling, lighting intensity etc. with regards to millimeters or meters, any ways thank you very much for your insights, it is very helpful sir, i guess more pratice for me to determine what units will work for me..

The answer to your question is right there and there in front of you.

If you have a 3 meter wide wall and the plans says you must have 3 tiles running accross it's length then that means, either:

1. you make a texture map that has 3 tiles across and FIT it in along the length of the wall object
2. or, make a single tile texture map that is TILABLE and make the tiling coordinates to three (3)

Both approach is correct and answers the questions above. Did you understand?

I dont know why nahihirapan ka sa metric system. swerte pa nga tayo kasi hindi inches ang gamit natin dito sa pinas. increments of 10 lang naman lahat yan.

kung sanay ka sa mm, mag mm ka na. either way, multiply mo lang sa 1000 or .001 ang units.

v_wrangler wrote:The answer to your question is right there and there in front of you.

If you have a 3 meter wide wall and the plans says you must have 3 tiles running accross it's length then that means, either:

1. you make a texture map that has 3 tiles across and FIT it in along the length of the wall object
2. or, make a single tile texture map that is TILABLE and make the tiling coordinates to three (3)

Both approach is correct and answers the questions above. Did you understand?

hello po mga master, ask ko lng po sna kung ano mas mgandang units n gamitin s max, meter po b o millimeter? so that most of the default units for lighting, tiling, evermotion models are already match with the scene?

-if my cad file is in MM, and i import it to max in MM as well, if i will insert an IES file(which i downloaded from sir bokkins) do i have to multiply the intensity to 100x? or the IES file will automatically adjust its units to match with what i have set in max so i dont need change any setting, it's plug and play n kumbaga? pti s material tiling po, kelangan po b nka "use real world scale"? or it does not matter?..

-maraming salamat po mga masters..

-this was my original post for this thread, i have no problem with tiling sir, as i have said, it is not that difficult to adjust this and that, bottom line, i only want to ask which units to use so that most of the default units for lighting (esp. IES lights),tiling, and evermotion models are already match with the scene, so i can minimize the adjusting..

bokkins wrote:I dont know why nahihirapan ka sa metric system. swerte pa nga tayo kasi hindi inches ang gamit natin dito sa pinas. increments of 10 lang naman lahat yan.

kung sanay ka sa mm, mag mm ka na. either way, multiply mo lang sa 1000 or .001 ang units.

salamat po sir, hnd nmn po s nHihirapan ako kung mm or m, gusto ko lng po malaman kung san me makakaminimize ng adjustments when it comes to lighting,tiling and merging evermotion models..

-if my cad file is in MM, and i import it to max in MM as well, if i will insert an IES file(which i downloaded from sir bokkins) do i have to multiply the intensity to 100x? or the IES file will automatically adjust its units to match with what i have set in max so i dont need change any setting, it's plug and play n kumbaga? pti s material tiling po, kelangan po b nka "use real world scale"? or it does not matter?..

-maraming salamat po mga masters..

-this was my original post for this thread, i have no problem with tiling sir, as i have said, it is not that difficult to adjust this and that, bottom line, i only want to ask which units to use so that most of the default units for lighting (esp. IES lights),tiling, and evermotion models are already match with the scene, so i can minimize the adjusting..

First, evermotion files are usually modeled and textured to match their real-world scales.
For IES, the default intensity comes along with the web distribution files (100%)
You are then free to adjust this intensity percentage based on whether they are too bright or two dark when you test renders.

I hope I made it clear now.

v_wrangler wrote:

-if my cad file is in MM, and i import it to max in MM as well, if i will insert an IES file(which i downloaded from sir bokkins) do i have to multiply the intensity to 100x? or the IES file will automatically adjust its units to match with what i have set in max so i dont need change any setting, it's plug and play n kumbaga? pti s material tiling po, kelangan po b nka "use real world scale"? or it does not matter?..

-maraming salamat po mga masters..

-this was my original post for this thread, i have no problem with tiling sir, as i have said, it is not that difficult to adjust this and that, bottom line, i only want to ask which units to use so that most of the default units for lighting (esp. IES lights),tiling, and evermotion models are already match with the scene, so i can minimize the adjusting..

First, evermotion files are usually modeled and textured to match their real-world scales.
For IES, the default intensity comes along with the web distribution files (100%)
You are then free to adjust this intensity percentage based on whether they are too bright or two dark when you test renders.

I hope I made it clear now.

got it sir, thank you very much for your time and replies..

I was browsing a while back and thought this was very timely and informative:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=1235651&postcount=4

v_wrangler wrote:I was browsing a while back and thought this was very timely and informative:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=1235651&postcount=4

maraming salamat sir, ill definitely look into that..

good share Verts! not sure if in max2010, they already made importing rigged characters from different units merge seamlessly in a working file having a different system unit. or has the new container feature solved it already?