LWF Poll

First topic message reminder :

I am always curious about who use this technique, if you do not know what LWF means, please choose either answer #2 or #3.

cubi_o: wrote:hi LWF i've read this LWF techniques since years ago.
but as i go through with it i found something interesting techniques applied..
yung bitmaps na ma a apply with this LWF could still be same without burning them or making the images dull. coz sometimes when we render with the applied bitmaps, the final output on the render is not same with the image we have applied. i have question... do we have to change also these bitmaps their gamma's before applying them on the max file? or leave them as it is...or is that what they say double gamma correction??

Thanx and best regards....

ok, in the Gamma tab-> Bitmap file -> input gamma place a value of 1.8 (or 2.2) this should make your bitmaps the same as how you see the texture when you open it in Photoshop (same color, no fading). now when you render it should look correct but make sure to override the gamma when you save it (if you want to burn in the gamma). Or apply the same 1.8 value in the Gamma -> Bitmap Files - output gamma and every image you save out of MAX will automatically burn the gamma in.

Again, this might all be done automatically in vRay SP3 so you might just want to wait.

LWF

reygerali wrote:Sir LWF, Hope you dont mind.. i really like to learn this techniques. it would really help if you could give us some illustrative guide like screenshots of settings and result maybe. thanks a lot sir

would really recommend you read the link given by mushroom. also you may just want to wait for SP3, since it probably would be easier to use LWF in SP3. i do not want to sound not helpful but i really do not have the time to do a full blown tutorial right now, have deadlines this week and next as well. just writing in this thread alone has cost me hours of my time and it almost 1AM here now, really sorry i can't do a tut right now.

maybe i will do one once i install SP3 so it is more current since it might just be a waste to do one using SP2 when the workflow will change in SP3.


LWF.

Sir maraming salamat sa info. good luck po sa work nyo..

Two birds with one stone. Birds = reygerali & cubi_o

https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img26/3707/lwfmaxcopy.jpg

note, my monitor at home is calibrated to gamma 2.2, other will have to find their own gamma (between 1.8 - 2.2)


LWF

LWF wrote:Two birds with one stone. Birds = reygerali & cubi_o

https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img26/3707/lwfmaxcopy.jpg

note, my monitor at home is calibrated to gamma 2.2, other will have to find their own gamma (between 1.8 - 2.2)


LWF

now thats what we are talking about.

sir edit ko lng nng konti for a direct visual discussion....pero pag hi res sa link nalng.

thanx again for this information.

cubi_o: wrote:

LWF wrote:Two birds with one stone. Birds = reygerali & cubi_o

https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img26/3707/lwfmaxcopy.jpg

note, my monitor at home is calibrated to gamma 2.2, other will have to find their own gamma (between 1.8 - 2.2)


LWF

now thats what we are talking about.

sir edit ko lng nng konti for a direct visual discussion....pero pag hi res sa link nalng.

thanx again for this information.

hahaha..correct ka dyan cubi_o. Thanks sir LWF. I hope to hear more contribution from you sir.

if you are saving your rendered image as:

1. jpeg - make sure you saveas with 'override 2.2' gamma embedded on the file. using the 'system default gamma' will give you a non-linear (dark) image.

2. hdr - it's ok to embed the 'system default gamma' as you can adjust the exposure (gamma set to 2.2) in photoshop later on.

ive been using lwf for almost a year na po, ngayung lng ulet ako bumalik sa reinhard colormapping..

maganda sa lwf is madali mo mapaliwanag ang scene. coz automatic na pag nag 2.2 gamma ka liliwanag agad ang scene mo. ang main problem is sometime pag hindi mo kabisado mag lwf ang problemd dun is nagiging maputla maputla yung rendered image. mas prefered ko na i burn yung gamma na 2.2 sa render kesa gawin kong 2.2 sa pshop kasi mas dominant yung grain ng render pag gagawin sya 2.2 sa pshop po.

about sa lwf button ng sp3 advisable lng sya pag i oopen mo yung previos work mo and rerender mo sya as lwf. pero pag gagawa ka ng new scene. better start ng lwf workflow,

ang color picker ng max ba gamma space 2.2 or linear space?

raytracer wrote:ang color picker ng max ba gamma space 2.2 or linear space?

refer po dun sa image na pinost ni Cubi, pag naka tick yung 'affect color selectors' at naka set pati na po yung ibang me red outlines then it will be in gamma 2.2 space. after you have set those parameters you will notice a change in your color picker.

tutik wrote:

raytracer wrote:ang color picker ng max ba gamma space 2.2 or linear space?

refer po dun sa image na pinost ni Cubi, pag naka tick yung 'affect color selectors' at naka set pati na po yung ibang me red outlines then it will be in gamma 2.2 space. after you have set those parameters you will notice a change in your color picker.

ah cool. di ko pa natry sa max. time to try.
automatic kasi sa lw and kray. http://www.lightwiki.com/SG_CCTools_-_For_Color_Management_and_Linear_Workflows

raytracer wrote:

tutik wrote:

raytracer wrote:ang color picker ng max ba gamma space 2.2 or linear space?

refer po dun sa image na pinost ni Cubi, pag naka tick yung 'affect color selectors' at naka set pati na po yung ibang me red outlines then it will be in gamma 2.2 space. after you have set those parameters you will notice a change in your color picker.

ah cool. di ko pa natry sa max. time to try.
automatic kasi sa lw and kray. http://www.lightwiki.com/SG_CCTools_-_For_Color_Management_and_Linear_Workflows

nosebleed ah! tfs

LWF wrote:I am always curious about who use this technique, if you do not know what LWF means, please choose either answer #2 or #3.

di ako sure, but i am doing this

my monitor is calibrated with 6500k whitepoint with default 2.2 gamma tpos ung gamma ng vray ko is also set to 2.2 plus yung gamma and lut settings ko is set to gamma 2.2, but still LWF is not clear to me so #3, dami ko nang thread na binabasa sa linear work flow na yan di ko pa rin ma gets ng maayos, naging aware lang ako dyan dahil laging naeemphasize yan ng mga pro sa evermotion,

some tips when using LWF

*if you decide to put 2.2 bitmap output sa preference make sure you are using a non hdri to lit your scene.It has something to do with the hdr itslef. If you are, you can switch to 1.0 bitmap output and manually configure hdri as gamma 1 when using it as a map which in my own opinion seems like mental ray is easier to setup in terms of linear 2.2 in max kaseh naka embed na cya sa exposure tab nya eh. Vray is not that straightforward imho.

*always use Vfb
*never use mfb as it will double gamma your scene(making your scene super washed out).
*if you want to bake the gamma into your renders make sure color mapping is set to 2.2 or if not @ vfb srgb is turned on.
*others prefer to use color correct plugin rather than bitmap output 2.2 in max preference because they deal with different file for bitmaps and each one has different input for gamma (jpg,png,HDR)
*when saving your images in lwf i would recommend exr, hdr or half floating point 16bit tiff. The explanation for this is it stores more data whenever you want to tweak ur gamma or exposure settings in photoshop, you wont get as much noise as you would normally have on an 8 bit jpeg image. Thus the reason for very huge file sizes.

*the thing i find irritating when using from linear 1.0 to gamma 2.2 are actually the reflections/glossiness or refraction levels. when you switch a 1.0 scene to 2.2 turns out to be more reflective because its making the values of your reflections more higher in gamma 2.2

I dont have any intention to confuse anyone. The tip is actually to those who are using it already and to those who wants it.
Actually any workflow that best suits you, then go for it. No need to switch just for the sake. As long as you can interpret your art the way you should then i guess thats fine.

Ill post a sample lwf scene tomorrow vs a 1.0 just for a comparison.

Peace

@ryancoy
abangan namin to sir

there is an aversis method... what do the pros have to say about it?...

cloud20 wrote:there is an aversis method... what do the pros have to say about it?...

I just went over that aversis tut you mentioned and it is exactly how we do it here:

The only difference is that I leave the color mapping at linear 1. And save the rendered outputs to gamma 2.2.
At the gamma preference - input is set at 2.2.

We do not burn the gamma in the images via color mapping because sometimes we need to output to linear exrs.

Sp3 btw has a linear workflow prop that allows instant setting of files that were previously done the old way.

may alam ako kaunti, ewan ko lang kung tama, lwf pag pare pareho ang gamma setting ng monitor, vray at max?, tama ba yun mga kapuso?

I've been using lwf for all my animations ever since i saw gnomonology vray speed vs. quality which was almost 2 years ago. But to tell you honestly, I don't know how lwf really works behind the scenes. hehe

v_wrangler wrote:

cloud20 wrote:there is an aversis method... what do the pros have to say about it?...

I just went over that aversis tut you mentioned and it is exactly how we do it here:

The only difference is that I leave the color mapping at linear 1. And save the rendered outputs to gamma 2.2.
At the gamma preference - input is set at 2.2.

We do not burn the gamma in the images via color mapping because sometimes we need to output to linear exrs.

Sp3 btw has a linear workflow prop that allows instant setting of files that were previously done the old way.

I guess I"m on the right track then... Thanks man...

mga bro tanong lang... kung nakasetup ba ng lwf ang pc na ginagamit ko and nagsave ako ng render output file format is jpeg pareho lang ba ang quality ng image na makikita pag view ito sa ibang monitor? i mean... hindi ba magbabago ang brightness, contrast, color, saturation etc...

guys i have a noob question though regarding lwf or gamma settings, my notebook's gamma as i've checked has a 1.0 gamma, do i change it 1.8 or 2.2 for me to have a correct render? i'm new to vray and 3dsmax and has been trying to come up with a realistic render but unfortunately my renders are either washed out or sometimes too dark, is it maybe because of my gamma settings on my notebook and my max settings?

armstrong wrote:guys i have a noob question though regarding lwf or gamma settings, my notebook's gamma as i've checked has a 1.0 gamma, do i change it 1.8 or 2.2 for me to have a correct render? i'm new to vray and 3dsmax and has been trying to come up with a realistic render but unfortunately my renders are either washed out or sometimes too dark, is it maybe because of my gamma settings on my notebook and my max settings?

sir kahit hindi ka mag lwf ok lang hindi naman nagpapaganda ng render yun , yung purpose lang ng lwf para hindi tumanggap ng sobrang ilaw ang mga diffuse, advice ko lang para hindi ma wash out i maintain mo yung environment light mo sa 1 tpos yung mga bounces babaan mo ng below 1, ganun lang ginagawa ko eh

armstrong wrote:guys i have a noob question though regarding lwf or gamma settings, my notebook's gamma as i've checked has a 1.0 gamma, do i change it 1.8 or 2.2 for me to have a correct render? i'm new to vray and 3dsmax and has been trying to come up with a realistic render but unfortunately my renders are either washed out or sometimes too dark, is it maybe because of my gamma settings on my notebook and my max settings?

Monitors should have a 6500K whitepoint and the gamma must be set to 2.2. As I mentioned many posts ago - gamma or calibration isn't just something you'd dial, you need a calibrator like Spyder etc to set your monitors whitepoint and gamma.

v_wrangler wrote:

armstrong wrote:guys i have a noob question though regarding lwf or gamma settings, my notebook's gamma as i've checked has a 1.0 gamma, do i change it 1.8 or 2.2 for me to have a correct render? i'm new to vray and 3dsmax and has been trying to come up with a realistic render but unfortunately my renders are either washed out or sometimes too dark, is it maybe because of my gamma settings on my notebook and my max settings?

Monitors should have a 6500K whitepoint and the gamma must be set to 2.2. As I mentioned many posts ago - gamma or calibration isn't just something you'd dial, you need a calibrator like Spyder etc to set your monitors whitepoint and gamma.

pag nvidia yung video card automatic na po yung whitepoint sa 6500k daylight. ung photoshop may calibrator adobe gamma

Hindi po graphic board ang nagseset ng whitepoint. Maari ngang automatic - pero yoong monitor po and magdidisplay ng kulay. Marami pong dahilan ang pag-ibaiba ng whitepoint - usual na pagaadjust ng monitor, at tagal ng gamit at modelo. Kaya kailangan ng calibrations regularly

Kung kayo po ay gumagamit ng ibang calibrator - yaang adobe gamma should be put off.